AMNESTY GENOCIDE REPORT

 AMNESTY GENOCIDE REPORT

  Dec 5,2024

https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio/1-2-as-it-happens/clip/16113879-there-ongoing-genocide-gaza-says-amnesty-international-secretary

Guest: Agnès Callamard

CH: Amnesty International says Israel is committing a genocide in Gaza. It's the first time in the human rights organization's 63-year history that it has made the charge during an active armed conflict. In its report, Amnesty says it looked at a nine-month period between October 7th, 2023, when Hamas attacked Israel, and early July, 2024. The report finds that Israel has sought to deliberately destroy Palestinians in Gaza, and that the Hamas attack on October 7th does not justify Israel's actions. Israel has called the report false and based on lies. The US State Department says it disagrees with Amnesty's conclusions, and Amnesty's own Israel branch disputes the allegation of genocide. Agnès Callamard is the Secretary General of Amnesty International. We reached her in the Hague.

NK: Agnès, as you know, there are specific requirements to meet the definition of genocide. There's already a case before the International Court of Justice looking at whether Israel's actions meet that definition. So why use this word in your report now?

AGNÈS CALLAMARD: We have investigated war crimes by Israel in Gaza for the last 14 months. It became very clear to us that those war crimes needed to be analyzed together in order to appreciate really the nature and the extent to what was going on in Gaza. In this context, to our investigation, it became increasingly clear that we needed to consider a very high threshold. And genocide became an evident threshold. As you pointed out, it's not just the act that matter in the crime of genocide. It is the genocidal intent.

NK: And what evidence did your Amnesty International team look at, Agnès, to come to this conclusion?

AC: Look, we have taken into account, of course, the military context and the military objectives. But the evidence that is being presented in our report clearly shows that the intention is not military, but the annihilation of the Palestinian people in part or in total in Gaza. Take, for example, the direct attacks on civilians repeated, repeated one day after another without any military necessity. We have shown the use of heavy explosive weapons with a wide radius of destruction in densely populated residential areas. That does not meet any kind of military objective. We have shown the repeated destruction of civilian infrastructures after Israel had gained military control over them. We have highlighted the act against that can only be intentional. For instance, the arbitrary detention, the use of torture. We have shown Israel’s very detailed bureaucratic control over humanitarian aid, which clearly shows that when they want, they can provide humanitarian aid to the people. And when they don't want to, they don't provide humanitarian aid to the people. The only, only conclusion is that it is aimed at the physical destruction of Palestinians in Gaza.

NK: Amnesty's Israel branch, which operates separately, says the scale of killing carried out by Israel in Gaza has reached, quote, horrific proportions and must be stopped immediately, unquote. But the group also says it does not accept your finding of genocide. A statement from employees obtained by the Haaretz newspaper says even before this investigation was complete, it was being referred to internally as the genocide report. Were your findings, Agnès, a foregone conclusion?

AC: First and foremost, we are talking here about some members of Amnesty International, Israel. They do not represent the section. And this will be handled through Amnesty International democratic processes. Our research has been undertaken for the last six months with the utmost integrity, painstakingly investigated. We've had dozens of researchers involved in this research, dozens of lawyers of the organization, and indeed, we have also relied on the external legal scholars who have reviewed our findings throughout the last six months. It was absolutely not a foregone conclusion.

NK: The Israel branch of amnesty has also said and questioned why you're not taking a look at what Hamas did. They said that there have been allegations of both the massacre carried out by Hamas on October 7th and the Israeli attack on Gaza following the massacre were genocide or attempted genocide, unquote. And they're saying that you need to apply this research universally and consistent for all parties. How do you respond to that?

AC: And we are. Absolutely. And we absolutely have done so. So we have already produced several briefing on the heinous crimes committed by Hamas on October 7th. And we have called for the last 14 months for the unconditional release of the hostage that we consider as a war crime. And we are involved in an in-depth investigation into October 7th, which will be produced in a couple of months, which will be meeting the exact same standards and resources that we have provided to this report on the genocide. Let me highlight the fact that October 7th was one day and it is finished. We are doing investigation on October 7th because we believe that all victims must be heard and we believe in justice. But there is an ongoing genocide against the Palestinian people and that must take precedence over anything else. There have been more than 40,000 Palestinians killed. There is no life left in Gaza. People have lost their dignity. They can't find food. They have to fight to get a piece of bread. That is the emergency. This is what we need to focus on. There is an ongoing genocide in Gaza, and the international community must do everything in their power to stop it.

NK: As our listeners heard in the introduction, Israel is rejecting the conclusions of your report. Israel's foreign ministry has said this is a fabricated report that is based on lies and called amnesty, quote, deplorable and fanatical, unquote, as an organization. They repeatedly say that they are going after Hamas. The US has responded as well to this, saying they believe the allegation of genocide that you've come to is unfounded. So realistically, Agnès, what impact do you think this report can have?

AC: We are not the first time, the first to declare and determine genocide. UN expert have determined that genocide is happening. Amnesty is adding its voice and as added 300 pages of evidence, which with all due respect, I doubt very much the Israeli authorities have considered. We have written to them repeatedly with our evidence, and they have never, not once over the last 14 months, responded and interacted with our findings. Genocide is not a matter of belief. What will happen, we are adding our voice. We are demanding that the International Criminal Court considers adding that crime to their arrest warrants. We are calling on governments around the world to do everything in their power to stop the genocide and certainly to stop the weapons, or else to face the risk of complicity in the crime of genocide.

NK: Agnès, I appreciate your time. Thank you for this.

AC: Thank you very much.

CH: Agnès Callamard is the secretary general of Amnesty International. She's in The Hague.