In his ignorance and blindness he thought it
perfectly okay to wear brown makeup and a turban at a 2001 party at the private Vancouver school where Trudeau was then teaching. Or going blackface at an earlier occasion in high school where he performed "Day-O (The Banana Boat Song)".
NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh reflected on the deep hurt it will have caused Canadians who have suffered the sting of racism.
NDP leader Jagmeet Singh has been among the few to strike the right tone, speaking thoughtfully, with dignity, rather than pouncing to exploit. You are loved, you have worth, he assured those who look like him, who may dress like him, who have shared his experience of just being a visible minority.
"It's not about Mr. Trudeau; it's about the institution, that position," Singh told an audience in Essex, Ont.
"If someone at that level is mocking the realities of people who face challenges, who face barriers, who face physical violence, insults, can't get the jobs they need, economic barriers, housing, challenging health care outcomes — if someone mocks that reality, it's no wonder that the policies also are similarly lacking in the strength to tackle the problems."
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https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-oct-15-2019-1.5320923?fbclid=IwAR0n553nZzmhzmpCcxRsAB5I4fKCTiZRb_U6mO7p1rRJ37IgwUeIboLbKJs
Today on The Current: We're asking NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh what his party is offering Canadians,
'Voting out of fear is a waste of your vote' says Jagmeet Singh, as coalition speculation continues
Guests: Jagmeet Singh
LL: During this federal election campaign we requested interviews with the leaders of all of the major parties. Jagmeet Singh is the leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada and he joins me in our Toronto studio. Hello.
JAGMEET SINGH: Hi there.
LL: On Sunday you said you would do whatever it takes, those are your words to prevent Andrew Scheer's Conservatives from forming the next government and that included the potential of forming a coalition with Justin Trudeau's Liberals, which you said you would absolutely do, again your words. Is that still your position?
JAGMEET SINGH: So I absolutely believe that Canadians should win no matter what happens in the election. So I've made it clear I want to be their prime minister. I want to fight to improve health care investments pharmacare dental care housing crisis tackle climate crisis. But I also know that Canadians will make our choice and if they don't choose me as Prime Minister I'm prepared to do whatever I can to move forward with my priorities that I know are Canadians priorities.
LL: So that means there is a potential that you would negotiate some sort of an arrangement with the Liberals.
JAGMEET SINGH: What I've said before is that I've only ruled out one party I said I would not work with the conservatives so I've always been open to working with others. But I know that Canadians are not limited in their choices while liberals have let them down they don't have to choose liberals while conservatives are going to cut services they don't have to just choose conservatives. They have options in this and there's folks who run and tell them that they don't. I want people to know they do not have to settle for less.
LL: Okay. I just want you to hear a clip of Justin Trudeau on the campaign trail on the subject of vote splitting.
SOUNDCLIP
VOICE: We've seen what the, what happens in places like Ontario. The NDP wasn't able to stop Doug Ford. The NDP wasn't able to stop Stephen Harper. If you want to stop Conservative cuts you have to elect a progressive government, not a progressive opposition.
LL: Alright. Jagmeet Singh you heard what Trudeau had to say, a warning that voting for your party would mean a Conservative government. What do you say?
JAGMEET SINGH: Well he's worried about cuts. Mr. Harper put in place.
LL: Well he's worried about getting a Conservative majority.
JAGMEET SINGH: Because he says that they're going to be in cuts. Well in the healthcare funding area Mr Harper put a plan to cut 30 billion dollars of of health care funding Mr Trudeau implemented it. Families are worse off today because of the cuts that Mr. Trudeau put in place to health care and all the premiers across Canada had a meeting saying that these 30 billion dollars in cuts are going to hurt us. Mr. Trudeau implemented that when families are seeing that they're struggling with the cost of housing. There has not been any massive investment in housing there has in fact been 19 percent less investment in housing than Mr Harper. So Mr. Trudeau talks about being a solution but he's invested 19 percent less as a percentage of GDP than Mr Harper did in housing. So really are people better off. And that's what I hear from people every day they say you know what. We don't have the pharmacare that Liberals have promised for 22 years. We don't actually see the investments in housing that are less than what Mr. Harper the conservative government did. So why would it benefit Canadians to keep on voting for someone who says nice things during a campaign and I I appreciate that he says a lot of nice things. But what he does when he's in government is very different. He does not deliver on the things that families need.
LL: But you're treading a fine line here because there you are criticizing Liberals, but you're still keeping the door open to possibly working with them in government.
JAGMEET SINGH: Well this is the thing, if people want change they need to vote as many new Democrats as possible because New Democrats are going to deliver the change because we're open to doing whatever it takes to deliver. But the difference between us and the Liberals for example is we don't just talk the good talk because we're not in it for the rich and powerful as we've seen Mr. Trudeau when he promised to lower the costs of medication. He met with pharmaceutical industry lobbyists and the insurance lobbyists over eight hundred and seventy five times and then abandoned the promise he's promised to end fossil fuel subsidies but then met with the oil and gas lobbyists over fifteen hundred times in the four years that he was in government and then abandoned that promise. So he makes nice promises when he's campaigning. Then he meets with the powerful lobbyists and abandons those promises and we've got a pattern of behaviour here. The difference is we don't work for those rich and powerful lobbyists we don't rich work for the rich and powerful corporations we work for people.
LL: Do you think that minority government can work with alliances?
JAGMEET SINGH: I think that if you look at Canada's history, a lot of what we're proud of, our health care system, our protection for seniors and our pensions, they were all delivered with NDP members of parliament fighting hard for those things. We would not have universal health care here in Canada if it wasn't for Tommy Douglas who pushed for it at the federal level. So a lot of what we're proud of came when people voted more New Democrats into office and New Democrats pushed for these things and that's why I'm saying, my focus isn't on how to negotiate the next government. My focus is if you want change, if you want someone who's going to fight for you, vote New Democrat because that's what the history of Canada has shown. When there's been more New Democrats elected, we bring in change.
LL: Is Justin Trudeau someone though that you can work with? I mean you've already, you've said in the past, you said in August, after the SNC-Lavalin ethics report that he can't be trusted.
JAGMEET SINGH: Well that's why we need more New Democrats because if he's honest.
LL: Is he someone you can work with though?
JAGMEET SINGH: On his own no. But if there's enough New Democrats elected then we can certainly be able to push forward on investments into a national dental care program, which would provide over 4 million Canadians with dental services provided through a public government insurance program that would lift up people who can't afford that right now. We could certainly do that if we have enough New Democrats are elected. We could work with anyone, but that's the thing, we need as many new Democrats elected as possible to make that happen.
LL: But doesn't that require a certain level of trust and respect between leaders?
JAGMEET SINGH: Well what that requires is if we've got enough New Democrats, we can actually force these things. We can push these things in. And the one thing that I've ruled out is because it's clear that the Conservatives don't campaign in any way that they believe in investing in services and they don't hide it in their plans. So their budget that they've released or their platform that they've released is very clear that they're going to cut investments in infrastructure and public transit and services. So they're not hiding it. What the problem is with Liberals, with Mr. Trudeau he talks a good game, but unless there's New Democrats there to make it happen, it won't happen. So we need more of us to be able to push it.
LL: But there is something about the Liberals that you must like in order to have any faith at all in being able to work with them.
JAGMEET SINGH: Well it's not that I like, it's just that at least they they say certain things that seem that they're open, but they don't deliver it without New Democrats. That's a difference. They're not going to deliver anything unless we've got as many New Democrats as possible.
LL: So at last opportunity, before we move on to something else. There are a lot of people who are talking, I know because I've talked to a lot of them about voting strategically and that probably means they're not voting for the NDP. What do you say to them?
JAGMEET SINGH: I say that strategic vote for investments in a universal pharmacare and a national dental care and real action on ending fossil fuel subsidies is New Democrat. If you want change you're not going to get it by voting the status quo. And please never think that you have to settle for less. You do not have to settle between two choices. There are more options out there and there is a clear option if you want someone who's going to take the climate crisis seriously but also understand the housing crisis and the investments in health care that we need and really asking the wealthiest to pay their fair share. We put forward an ultra rich tax or a super wealth tax that's asking those who've got over fortunes of over $20 million to pay their fair share. No one else is prepared to do that. We are.
LL: You were praised for your heartfelt response to Mr. Trudeau's blackface controversy, but some of other observers are puzzled by your stance on Bill-21 in Quebec. What role does the electoral math in Quebec play in your response to the law there?
JAGMEET SINGH: Well I really believe in this this concept that if a majority of people believe in a law, you're not going to be able to build a better society unless you change and win over the hearts and minds of people. And that's what I've been doing in Quebec is the goal is we could change a law, but if 70 percent of people believe it's the right thing to do, they're going to find a way to bring it back. But if we can change the mindset of the people and show them that this is not the way to go forward, that divisive laws aren't good, then we've done something amazing. And what we're seeing in Quebec right now is that our approach my approach of showing people that listen I'm someone that wears a turban and a beard but that believes very firmly in a woman's right to choose that believes in same sex marriage that wants to fight the climate crisis that wants to invest in services that families need like health care people in Quebec are starting to say well maybe maybe this law doesn't make sense. We just heard from one of the leading commentators on one of Marshall's major morning show say you know when I see Jagmeet, I don't see someone who looks different I see someone who shares our values and we're seeing people changing their minds and that's my goal. I want to win over the hearts and minds of people.
LL: But as a federal leader and an aspirational prime minister, shouldn't you be intervening on behalf of those values at this stage in the courts?
JAGMEET SINGH: Absolutely not. There's a court challenge going on and as a lawyer I absolutely don't believe it's the right thing to do. So I've made it clear -
LL: Why not?
JAGMEET SINGH: Well there's a court challenge going on and there should not be.
LL: But you can intervene. If you were Prime Minister you could intervene on behalf of the federal government and state your values and fight that case based on those values that you espouse are important.
JAGMEET SINGH: This court challenge is very important and I think it's important not to have political interference with this court challenge that the people of Quebec are raising. They're raising it in Quebec and there should not be interference. It should go its course, and the courts are designed to be able to respond to challenges based on violations of human rights and I respect the courts to do that. What my job is right now and what I've made very clear is not to interfere with that court case that is going on, that is doing its job, that is people, citizens, are fighting this court, this law is in court. My job is to do whatever I can to use a platform that I have to win over the hearts and minds of people so that this law does not have the support. And we're seeing change. We're seeing actually people in Quebec re-evaluate whether this is something they support or not. And that to me.
LL: T,hat sounds anecdotal more than anything else. I don't see any change in the law happening.
JAGMEET SINGH: Well I think that if you want to change society it's hard work and to change a province that believes, 70 percent of people believe this is the right thing to do, it's going to take some hard work and that is my goal. I want to win over hearts and minds of people I don't think it's enough to fight a law case, a legal case when there's people who believe it's OK to discriminate people based on the way they look. I think it's important to challenge that discrimination and that's what I do every day.
LL: How do you explain your position though to someone in Quebec who's facing unemployment because of their personal faith and their display of that faith?
JAGMEET SINGH: Well I say that there is a court case going on and that court case is important. And I think that politically interference is not what needs to be done. That court case needs to be respected and it's going to challenge this law.
LL: It's almost like you're talking the talk, but not walking the walk.
JAGMEET SINGH: I mean it's kind of hard to say to a person who wears a turban and a beard.
LL: Well that's what I mean, if you're not getting involved in the court case at this point and stating or advocating that and stating that.
JAGMEET SINGH: That might be true if that was the only thing that one could do, but there's so much more that people do to challenge laws that are discriminatory. There's so much more that you can do to challenge societies that believe it's OK to discriminate people. I've lived that my whole life and there weren't laws that said it's okay to make fun of me because of the colour my skin. There weren't laws that said it was OK to be bullied because the way you looked. But that's why we've got a win over the hearts and minds of people to create a place where everyone is celebrated. It takes a lot of work, but being the running to become prime minister of Canada is a powerful way to win over people. People see me on a national platform regularly espousing values that they say you know and that relates to what I believe in. This person seems to relate to me when you've got Mr. Scheer who doesn't believe in a woman's right to choose, who doesn't believe in same sex marriage in his personal beliefs and he would be able to become a teacher in Quebec. Then you start to say well that doesn't really make sense maybe. Maybe there's something wrong with the way we're approaching this and that's working. We're seeing change happen in front of us just in a 30 day period in the campaign. We've already seen change and that to me is inspirational.
LL: OK let's move on to climate change because that's a big issue for a lot of people. Climate scientists Katharine Hayhoe and economist Andrew Leach have examined the major party platforms on climate. They say the NDP plan doesn't explain how they're going to cut Canada's emissions 40 to 50 percent in the next 10 years. Doesn't say how the NDP is going to navigate in that tricky area of provincial jurisdiction where so much about what the plan lies. How do you respond to those criticisms that there's just not enough there.
JAGMEET SINGH: Well we've had other experts say that our plan is the best plan to tackle climate crisis. So there might be a difference of opinion on the plan, but I can tell people my values. I believe passionately that we have to protect our planet. I see young people who instead of being hopeful about the future are afraid and worried. We saw 500,000 young people take to the streets in Montreal and I was in Victoria when it happened. We had thousands of young people in the streets and I want them to know that I will do everything I have in my power at the federal level to fight the climate crisis so we can immediately and our plan end fossil fuel subsidies we can invest in clean and renewable energy. We can tackle the buildings which are one of the largest sources of greenhouse gas emissions by retrofitting our buildings and homes. We can invest in public transit.
LL: Which is a provincial and municipal responsibility. How do you navigate all of these areas? The Liberals have had a rough time dealing with provinces on this.
JAGMEET SINGH: Well we know that there's lots of initiatives that are open and ready for federal investment. In B.C. for example, the major mayors in the lower mainland have all agreed on investments for public transit. They're ready to go and they need a federal partner. We would be a partner with that. There is massive investment we can make in train service that would reduce our emissions between a higher frequency train between Windsor and Quebec. That corridor we can invest in that. We know there's massive investments we can make in Toronto where the city needs investments for a relief line. There is projects across this country where we've not seen. We've seen a lot of nice words again with Mr. Trudeau, but when I met with mayors they say well it's hard to get the funds. I don't know how to access it. We've tried to but they've created all these loopholes and it's hard to actually access the funds that were promised. I've met with mayors of big cities who say the Liberals promised us funding for infrastructure, but we haven't seen it in four years. We can change that. We can be better partners and make sure we invest in public transit. We want to align with the science. I'm a biology major and graduate by background in education. I believe in the evidence. And I want to do everything I can to reduce emissions. We know we've got to keep warming to one point five degrees. We will do everything we can because I care deeply about protecting the future of those young people.
LL: You're opposed to expansion of Trans Mountain pipeline.
JAGMEET SINGH: That's correct.
LL: What would you do if you became prime minister with the pipeline? The government owns it.
JAGMEET SINGH: Right. So I would, the first step is I would not allow for the expansion. I don't believe in that and I've made it really clear I've opposed in the past and I will continue to. And what we can do is make sure we use all of our public dollars towards investing in clean and renewable energy. That's what we need to do.
LL: And that means what getting rid of the company? Does the government need to own a pipeline?
JAGMEET SINGH: Well I don't think that's what we should have done. I don't think it was the right decision. I don't think it was a responsible decision. And so I will make sure we do whatever we can once we're in government, assess the value of the asset and make sure we move ahead in a prudent way. My values are I don't want any of our public dollars going towards fossil fuel infrastructure. We should be spending our public dollars on clean and renewable energy.
LL: We are running out of time. It always goes by so quickly and I need to ask you about another big issue for a lot of Canadians, which is affordability. One of your big ticket items is funding for affordable rental housing units. Why the focus on renters and not buyers?
JAGMEET SINGH: Well we see in jurisdictions where housing is affordable that there is an affordable option for rent. So our plan to build half a million new affordable homes is to build affordable cooperative homes and non market housing so that people can have an affordable rental option. While it's going to take some time to build those homes, We're going to massively invest in build right away. There are people that are just on the edge they need a little extra help and they can't wait a couple of years for us to be able to have those new projects online. And we know that families are struggling. I met a woman who lost her ability to to be able to pay for the place she lived in because thr rent went up and she ended up living, she lives now in the backyard of her friend's house in a tent.
LL: But where does the money come from to build all of these units?
JAGMEET SINGH: The money comes from better choices. This is a conservative spin when they don't think we have money. Last year Mr. Trudeau spent almost $25 billion, $16 billion or $14 billion for the richest corporations to buy corporate jets and limousines in the fall economic statement. $6 billion to wave and forgive corporate loans and $4.5 billion to buy a pipeline. That was almost $25 billion of spending that didn't, a cent of it didn't go to people. I would spend on people, invest on people.
LL: But those are the things already spent. Like I said, you still have to look at the pipeline and whether you're gonna sell it or not. So from the current state of the coppers, where does the money come from?
JAGMEET SINGH: We actually could stop making those decisions to give billions of dollars to billionaires and in addition we're looking at better revenue. We're looking at increasing the wealthiest Canadians, those who have fortunes of over $20 million. If we put a 1 percent tax on that that could raise 70 billion dollars. There's more than enough resources out there.
LL: Parliamentary budget office said that your platform has high uncertainty for its revenue targets though. What do you say to that?
JAGMEET SINGH: I say that it takes courage to tax the wealthiest and we can do that. And it also takes courage to make better choices. The government has money. If they want to choose to do something they run right away to do it. If when it came to Indigenous people who are struggling with water, they couldn't find the money for it. But when they wanted to buy a pipeline they found $4.5 billion. It's a matter of choices. We would make better choices that don't give billions of dollars to the richest and billionaires of Canada. We would make investments in people. And we would also ask the wealthiest to pay their fair share. Something that Mr. Trudeau and certainly not Mr. Scheer aren't ready to do, but we're ready to do it.
LL: Mr. Singh we've got about a minute left and I want to come back to this question of coalition agreement. Whatever you want to call it because you are clearly the target of both the Liberals and the Conservatives right now. And that's maybe a nice position for you to be in. You've got less than a week to go. How do you respond to this idea that voting for the NDP is a wasted vote? I'm going to ask you that again.
JAGMEET SINGH: Yeah I'd say to people that voting out of fear is a waste of your vote. Voting because two parties believe they own your vote is a waste of your vote.
LL: And if it ends up with a Conservative majority, what would you say to that? That's what you don't want.
JAGMEET SINGH: I would say people should vote with their hearts and vote for what they want. If they want change, real change, which puts them first, where we see a government that actually fights for them, vote for New Democrat. We're seeing a massive amount of support coming our way because people know that we're going fight for them. If you want someone who's going to fight for you, New Democrats are going to fight for you.
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